How Blum Got 90M+ Users with Telegram, Memecoins & AI – Interview with Co-Founder Vladimir Smerkis

[Music] [Music] blockchain fore trading hybrid [Music] exchange welcome thank you my pleasure uh we want to talk about you know today uh how bloom was founded last year and because you have huge success in very short period of time and then I want to talk about you know uh your trading app but you're in between because you have you are not um doing any custodial thing but you're also you know fast enough like the DEX exchanges and then we are going to touch to memecoin mania and how it is going under bloom and maybe we can talk about the late news about Solana Pom Pomon issues and then uh how is your expansion plans uh and the strategically you know where are you going to position Bloom in the near future but our audience a little bit you know we are talking about also technical part of the business and you know how it works uh this is what I want to explain to our audience you know they need to understand you know what they are using so in the end uh I think you know the in the next generations is going to be more open and they understand you know what's going on but this is very new technology for also Turkish users so um the first question I can ask you know Bloom was founded last last year and what gap were you trying to fill in the in the you know the crypto space well actually initially we started to build Bloom with my co-founder Gle and we used to work at Binance and uh u in 2023 we left Binance in the end of the year in September actually and uh we thought that there is a lot of uh places in the world where exchanges can be can be better and for users uh you know there are centralized and decentralized exchanges right and both of them have some troubles and problems and things which can be done in a better way uh that's why we decided to build the easy to use uh training app um and at the same time we were following what happens in in the web three mhm and we've seen the success of Nodecoin which just uh just popped up in the space and you know no one was expecting and they were like showing hey this week we have 10 million users you know two weeks after we have 20 million users and of course for me as a marketeer it was the very interesting goto market you know uh opportunity uh and we just decided to combine our aim to create the trading app uh doing it u first inside the telegram as a mini app right I think this is the case right because you you were in Binance team so you you understood you know the what are the problems in central exchanges and they're centralized as well but if we would just go out to the streets and ask people to do the swap between the chains really hard to do and also I think you know for um if you are a more professional trader in you know the dex you know doesn't give you the you can do the algorithmic stuff and you know it is very simple UI okay I understand but you know for for beyond yeah right now they are trying to develop but we we did the experiment and uh we tried we tried to uh get the asset and swap the assets uh from one chain to another and we started to count the steps and uh there was like more than 40 so you need to login you need to download some wallet it is scary right because for the people if they are doing the first time u you know it's you know because it's giving you lots of messages you know are you signing the message sign the contract so because freedom freedom is because freedom is scary yes i'm I'm a father of five kids right and when if you put a kid outside to the to the new world it will be scary because you don't know how it works same with the web three scary to really own your money before that actually people still trust real people right now when you send money from one bank account to another bank account it's the same people right now it was you know they were approving they were writing down the and right now you are talking to a piece of code and it makes them scary in the beginning it was also scary for me too because I need to understand what I'm signing right now what I'm approving after that okay it was clear but it is not easy still so but with your you know perspective I believe you think that it should be easier like of course because because it was about the technology first so uh you know like bitcoin and all the things which were happening with crypto allowed you to really uh u control your money control your your private keys is uh but it was absolutely not user friendly previously i mean if I'm in a space since like 2015 2016 in order to buy Bitcoin back then you had to know people you had to meet them somewhere transfer money there was no like fiat on off ramps and stuff like this right so all those you know geeks build this brilliant and beautiful idea without thinking of the easiness how to access it so only now we are moving towards you know easy access and we seeing that centralized exchanges are building uh their web free wallets allowing people to buy any coins on the market i mean uh for centralized exchanges it's uh it's about the easiness right but at the same time it's about the control right so if you have the account same with the banks it's it's not really you you don't own the money or you don't know the access there is huge example last week the buy with tech 1.5 billion amount of ethereum it was the I think you know they were saying that this is the biggest hack in the world so and yesterday I I read maybe this morning uh some of the you know the um Ethereum moves to Bitcoin yeah uh so right now it's going to you know to get involved into market that's another is a centralized exchange yeah but it's it's another side of things I think the problem with by bit was about uh hack towards the custody service right yeah and even hardware I believe because it's a multi-sign wallet with four or six people maybe they reached out all the yeah but they access the front end of this thing was uh they were using this safe uh safe wallet which is the so it is not about exchange architecture it is custody it's it's a custodial signature problem that's what we know from the public sources so this is I mean we need to build culture among people among institutions how to have uh the assets uh how to control them if you own them and there's no third party uh where you can go and say hey I forgot my password I want to get it back there's there's no way back if you you know lost your seat phrase mh M but uh we we all in the industry needs need to build uh the in order to get the mass adoption in order to get a lot of people into the into the space uh and to gain a lot of trust we need to build those you know bridges interfaces and applications which allow people actually use the blockchains no one needs to be you know the super blockchain geek to access the the beauty of the blockchain right so but someone needs to build the bridges so we decided to be a part of this you know uh strategy as well uh what is the main difference for example for bloom when I compared to regular exchange what is the main difference you know a bloom user we we feel yeah yeah yeah we we are moving towards you know uh the hybrid approach um so for example example with the wallets with the with the custody we we use the semi-custodial wallets which means that the wallets are pre-created for the users okay but they own the the private keys they can you know get the access to their private keys and for example take a look at their assets and other applications if they want to right at the same time uh bloom is not allowed to take the funds from the user's wallets right so which makes it easier for the user right but at the same time this this approach with the wallets uh can uh get access to the user funds in caseuh user you know loses the private keys yeah right so this is those kind of things uh of course the approach with the interfaces and ability to launch new products because we are building for like you know uh making the onchain trading app uh it it's not one product right this product consists of many of them so currently we have the meme pad for example where any user can launch any coin uh and trade any coin which which has been launched there uh consists of the trading bot um on two chains uh both ton and salana where users can uh choose which tokens they they need to buy and the new chains are going to be coming there as well u and we're going to add them uh because we promised to have like more than 30 30 chains next step is going to be adding the EVM chains because once you technically if you want add one EVM chain then you can you know expand and expand further a lot of chains are EVM based such as BNB chain for example Um um yeah and then the next step is and of course the easiness I mean then the beauty of the telegram mini apps us uh users using the very wellbuilt uh app but at the same time they don't need to download it they don't need to update it and refresh it it's always the yeah they change the new behavior I believe for example that's you know that that approach would come from or Instagram or WhatsApp right now we talking do a lot a lot about this how they change the way how people and users interact it's coming it's coming from the east i mean like we all all seen the WeChat right and now uh people are not you know uh aware yet I think they are changing a behavior but the WeChat is very kind of strictly regulated and available only for the Chinese users mostly right so Telegram is a global company and now we know that the next uh big company with even more users than Telegram line is uh moving towards this direction as well with all the applications and the blockchain built in and I think it's going to be the big uh the big fan I believe we are going to see a move from I think Twitter so we we are going to see it's very obvious you know Elon Musk probably is going to introduce some talkage he should not only talk about dodge we need some some something more he promised he's going to do something because I believe there is huge potential because all the user base in crypto and in Twitter and so I think they all know already you know because of the telegram and the and the wechathat you know this experience experience so if they apply I think it's going to be new paring for for for for everyone in crypto space adoption 100% and he proved that he make things happen i don't know have you tried but it was allowed really gro yeah yeah of course i mean it really works good and it really does don't have the censorship same with the chat GPT right sometimes I don't understand the context about a tweet and I use for example group to you know what does it say you know what what is you know the problem is about you know or or I check the sentiment about bloom what what does the audience are thinking because it has the huge go is good good mood or bad mode today right yeah so I think you know it is going to be the next step for crypto for me in my opinion for the maybe you know the vital always talking about 1 billion users it didn't arrive yet but I think Twitter is going to be the main player you know telegram yes played his role right now but right now I think brought quite a lot of users into the web three and we know that you know now centralized exchanges uh do not want to list a lot of like the tone based projects the telegram based project because they've got already the huge base right from dogs from notcoin from from hamster combat and all the others uh those users you know there is like also a saying that uh it's only about the air drops and and the drop hunters are only there because why there's such a big amount of users in Telegram and on Anton because users could you know play the tapping game and get some tokens and then you know they they were selling it so they had to uh have the wallet they had to understand sometimes they were using the NFT certificates for the tokens to hold the value right so it was a really great learn to earn approach and which I really enjoyed and of course uh the only problem I think like the challenge for Ton uh now is uh they don't have the access to the US market mhm fortunately or unfortunately US have the money and the US have the quite wealthy crypto dens and you know enthusiasts right salana does have it twitter does have it so it it can be the next step towards the I believe also money in the US market but also still this is the fact I think US is writing the narrative so with Trump as you can see everyone you know said that yeah he said that you know he's going to put Bitcoin as a reserve and somehow all the industry started to look at Trump of course because they built the narrative they know how to market things you know all the things we wear or use watch they do it not even talking about the Trump and millennia tokens yeah yeah i mean yeah for example I think you know it was I didn't expect that kind of a you know move because it it hurts people i'm okay with Trump but why for example Melena you know released and then I'm okay with everything but he didn't say anything yeah it was it was maybe too aggressive but you know the interesting things from the stats and analytics is that uh every seventh American who bought uh Trump uh coin Okay yeah trump token it was their first crypto in their entire life okay this is this is they some of them might be disappointed but at least now they have the accounts and know how it it works so that's why I think you know I don't think the crypto needs United States money but we need their marketing and how they build the narrative and how they set the I think the standards and everything if if America says that bitcoin is okay and we are you know keeping it as reserve I think all the world as you can imagine they are going to say okay it's not a bad money same with ETFs or you know things like that that's the thing so I understand so you have a semicusto deal approach and you are fast enough like the centralized exchanges right um but the thing is you have the seat phrases of the user users you are keeping it uh it's one time and then you're deleting it the concept of MPC wallets are that the seat phrase is stored in like three different in three different locations uh user keeps part of it uh the application which he's using having part of it and there's like intermediary storage has part of it right so this way it cannot be used in a bad ways by the exchanges to take away the money if the user loses it at the same the same time because I have like quite a lot of people who lost their uh access to their wallets and those people are not like the uh newbies uh in the in yeah it happens all the time uh so this approach lets us use it you This is the most comfortable approach ever because it can be created with a like single tab and it's quite secure this is this is one of the things the other things is uh some of the like you know interfaces centralized and the front end of course is centralized and the access to this and we can add some centralized good features for example on and off ramps right because one of the most uh well like you know centralized exchanges do not earn much money on the onoff ra on and off ramps it means when they convert their fiat money Turkish LE or US dollar or euro um into crypto yeah that's not the income you know u source of income for the for the exchanges but it's the way to convert users from non-web free space into this crypto space so this is you know of course uh the crypto owner ramp cannot be decentralized so it's going to be the centralized function as well right so we going to introduce it soon you you are you are talking about good point Because uh for example in Turkey right now if I want to buy some coins I have to go through banks because I have my fiat money in the bank and I need to send I have only legally in Turkey is allowed us to send to centralized exchanges like for example Binance i cannot send any money for example in a you know exchange operating in for example uh UK Mexico or anything there is also but there is also like P2P right kind of a gray zone right yeah yeah yeah right now I need to go to these exchanges because banks are working with these 10 15 exchanges because I have my money and they don't allow me for example send my money to Kraken bank says that you cannot send to this account so this is this is how it works so that's why as you said you know I need this fiat of ramp on ramp and go into the space but after that I'm also saying everyone that if somehow it is going to be the new you know um uh new approach if the crypto is going to be the you know the digital money and we are going to ditch the dollar Turkish or anything we need to get paid by crypto yeah otherwise I have dependency to the regulation and the banks i have dollar i cannot do this in a in a legal way i think uh for the regulation part it's uh you know it it needs some time right first they were very afraid of this you know the money will be running away from countries so we need to control so we need to just forbid this we need to say it's not going to work right then they understood technically that it's you you know you cannot stop this thing so that therefore you need to regulate it the right way now the regulations are quite strict in some count some of the countries right maybe in some ways in Turkey as might be more friendly i think the friendliness of the regulations are is coming right it is it is not friendly actually but the adoption is huge for example the crypto payment is not uh allowed in Turkey and as I said you know they are right now uh putting some restrictions but I'm very supportive about this because there are lots of uh you know fraud and hack accidents in in in Turkey because of these centralized exchanges before and people lost money so putting a regulation and technical framework to in front of them I believe is going to at least reduce the risks and but this kind of restrictions you know uh put pressure on uh on client's uh shoulders for example I use crypto payments in Turkey in another way i have the buy bit card and the Binance card I have crypto on my Binance and by bit accounts uh so it converts crypto into the fiat fiat allowed in Turkey for example but your card works with but it's it's a normal card because the way Visa and Mastercard the the time you actually buy coffee you you pay with a fee right yes this works but for example as a Turkish stism if I want to build a startup to do that it is not allowed I know but you can work for example therefore those you know foreign startups earn like I don't know fun 1.5% commissions on this if the regulations would be more friendly and I I believe they will they will be at some point I'm going to you know probably uh little bit lose the uh framework but in the end this is the question I wanted to ask so uh bloom is in between semicoster deal as you said you know you I can trade token coin meme I can launch me coin on bloom but in terms of regulation where are you standing so should I regulate decentralized regulation is the better way to be standard right because uh uh at the same I can't say yeah because we not we we're not being the custodian of people's money so we do not store people's money we cannot block this money right so it's fully on chain I think this is the right approach because in Turkey right now the new regulation says if you have custody uh of any user and people are buy and sell coins on your platform you need to apply for license and You are going to work with third party custodians who has already licensed you know applied for license in Turkey this is very okay in this way we are going to see they say you have the you know the assets in front of your you know in the treasury so you are not you know we are not going to see any FTX problem this is I'm very okay with that because uh we need to have both CX and DEX absolutely absolutely absolutely the CX provides the comfort but I think the hybrid hybrid approach there will be more and more of that I agree again why uh people why not a lot of like retail users not using DEX is because it's complicated and you need to have a lot of steps you need to make things easier for them and that's what we actually are doing the other things with the regulations for example different countries treat differently the uh margin trading the perpetual futures for example right so this is another thing uh two questions you know before jumping on that you know I'm going to ask the you know what is the secret sauce because you know Bloom you are not one year old right you know the company uh not yet it's not yet and you have how many users right now more than 91 million registered users and uh around like 14 15 monthly active users active users this is huge you know when you even for crypto space I believe you know it's not easy to attract that million active because most of the chains doesn't have that active Absolutely and I think this is kind of a bit uh artificial but not in the way it's fake users but the growth was I mean insane right of course because of the anticipation of the a lot of people they were thinking people from different countries from Turkey from CIS from Africa from Latam and all the different regions from from Apac that you know it might change the way they live it's going to be life they call it life change uh is going to happen right because of the first mover uh did provide an average like $200 to people who are just tapping for a couple of months right 10 minutes a day for most of the people it is very huge yeah but you know we we we we reached the uh peak I mean not bloom but all the Telegram mini apps uh there were a lot of disappointments from some of the apps because what what was happening majority of the developers they were looking at the example of notcoin which which is actually the tapping game yeah and they wanted to repeat this but of course uh having the first mover's advantage does not allow everyone to repeat it with the same success right so what happened uh they started to build a lot of games developers they started to launch a lot of coins but the same mechanic same mechanic uh but there was not enough uh buying power because there was not enough utility for those tokens right the first mover can have no utility like notcoin doesn't have much utility to be honest but it applies for for example I'm coming from web 2 as you know and it was you know the hyper casual gaming ecosystem that uh but most of the you know it there was a war between the studios they were trying to build the new mechanic first and at the same day maybe two days later because it was so easy to you know deploy that kind of games and you were seeing the same mechanic with different you know the v visuals and the images so and then but you know it's not very good long-term vision because you need to understand most of them failed yeah and and what happened after that they released tokens people who received it for free who was just tapping started to sell it and the market works very easily if there's more sellers than the buyers the price goes down if there are more buyers than the sellers the price goes up right so no one cared they were tapping they were receiving it for free they were dumping it there was no utility in the apps absolutely no right they they were started to make something up but I mean it was really u not natural not not native right so I I think u uh therefore we need some more uh utility apps such as we believe we building the utility app with the trading right so with the trading tokens we have a lot of examples for the tokens which uh are used in the wallets and the exchanges etc so you can take this token for the uh additional uh commission discount you can uh stake them you can farm them you can uh uh participate in the launch pools and launchpads etc right therefore uh you people from the market will have the intention to buy those tokens therefore this token can last longer than than the just just the gaming pure pure mess uh maybe the problem is not only about the you know um user base they are complaining about they lost money I think also the founders because when I you know try to understand the web two space the founders wasn't you know able to reach money or if for example if you are going to do an IPO you need to right now spend 15 years to get that point but right now the founders are at the first you know couple of months they are doing their IPO because they sell it's reverse order and they lose lost their appetite in my opinion so I believe the ecosystem in somehow is going to build a new mechanic for vesting schedules and people are going to be more aware I believe to understand developers should invest his time they shouldn't give up you know in two months three months because there are lots of application it's a graveyard in as you can imagine there are gaming studios for example do you remember uh the Angry Birds of course they spent years you know to be successful and it was their last game and then Ravio and they they uh they they boom but they spent too many years so they can't give up they spent investor money they spent their own time but right now it is very easy to reach I believe the investments that's why it's also we see lots of fails very fast um overall the speed I mean of development everywhere is is evolving we are seeing the short content I think a GP to also help them of Because right now even for me right now for example uh I I told you about our you know founding great arbitrage thing you know I'm checking the DB results it was before I was I had to think about the SQL query maybe you know in that detail right now the GPT gives me in a second and I'm just seeing you know on the right right now querying the SQL still but it's very faster even for me I'm not a developer anymore but I can imagine now how fast for the people and in the crypto space and okay so huge growth but what is the secret sauce source you a little bit explained to and well it was the right time first um so we were among the first wave of the projects right plus I believe uh the trust uh to us as the founders because we are ex Binance founders myself and Gle and also our two other co-founders which joined a bit later there's Eigar Pugacheski who is uh who who was head leading the product design a trust wallet also the Binance owned company uh and one of the leading web three wallets uh like I think they're almost the same with the MetaMask kind of levels uh and uh Vlad Masikov so you know uh right after we announced that we are creating this uh the the app which was not even online uh Binance decided to invite us uh to the incubator And when Binance announced this when we were reached by Bloomberg because the the topic was quite quite cool and uh quite hot right they so everyone wanted to know more and there was not a lot of projects or people who they could talk to uh so it did build trust our previous employee uh the Binance incubator accelerator and later on it turned out to be the investment from Binance Labs which now are called easy labs yeah uh they transformed the name and of course I think the the secret was the go to market strategy because we u actually we were not inventing but I think we were the first ones who were using the invite only mechanics within the telegram mini apps if you remember the clubhouse where everyone was talking about clubhouse Elon Musk was going online to the clubhouse during the pandemic it was a thing yes and I was I you know you wanted to download this and you need you had to have the invite code and you started to ask everyone on on the socials and etc it's also the same right the the it is all the need you know the required parts combined together because pandmi everyone was at at home because of the regulation you know the you know legally it's not allowed and people were dying to be socialized and that clubhouse you know was exactly yeah but the I mean the mechanics the bus around this where people were like if you're just on a Facebook or Instagram and you're reading on Twitter Does anyone have the uh access to clubhouse give me the invite etc etc you would be interested in what clubhouse they talking about right so you would check it out and there's a cool concept elon Musk goes there to gives a speech and you can ask question invite model you need to find the influencers first right because it doesn't work with regular people of course how because at the same time with the invite model and the launch of the app we had the referral system so when you invite it we have this point system inside the app so by doing some actions you earn points which later on should be converted at some rate uh into the tokens right to say thank you to the first users who supported Bloom from the from the beginning so and because everyone was talking about Notecoin and Telegram and Ton and we were the promising project and still are I believe and Binance did invite us into the incubators bloomberg wrote about us yeah everyone wanted to get in and influencers the Koss they one of their business incomes and the money incomes are the referrals referral programs referral incomes right because they work with the exchanges I'm talking about the crypto influencers and the bloggers but and they started to re and uh at that time when we started there was only like three people you could invite with your link so if you get the invite from someone you can then invite only three people was this was not actually purely marketing because we were a bit afraid of the uh high load to the app so this way we could control somehow yeah so not everyone could get in into the same uh time and we had some problems with the high load it's a good problem to have it is not plent uh so there was actually two reasons why we did the invite only model so to control the load potential load and also to be interesting for the users because I remember the clubhouse and I remember the step and for example the you know digital uh digital sneakers if you remember this there was a project like this using it and it worked out so a lot of influencers we had the huge queue thousands of influencers across the globe including Turkey uh I don't know Europe uh and all the other countries started to reach out can you increase our uh invitation uh amount and the number of invites we have and for some of them we can say yeah today you're going to have 100 additional today you're going to have 500 additional when we were ready technically to expand and that's how the the wheel started to move so right now um you are also I think you have plans to to be a web app right so yeah because we want to be independent you know like lately if people were following the tone news the tone as the blockchain news and telegram and one of the advantages for uh tone as the blockchain of course is the connection to telegram as a messenger so telegram has around almost 1 billion users 1 million uh users who use the messenger so and like builtin ability to interact with the blockchain inside the uh inside the messenger uh gives a huge amount of talk about this it is a different experience I believe experience so I think you and business experience as well for example you you know about the web web two kind of apps so you have the app uh just give givea we'll give an example business wise why it makes sense you have the app uh inside the app store or Google play market you download it and if you want to invite your friend from the app you need to send the link in the messenger your friend will click on his messenger whatever it's going to be WhatsApp fiber or whatever right uh or Facebook messenger he needs to go to this store download the app then you know enter your code or whatever it automatically maybe will just extract it from your message but still you need to do some actions a lot of uh a lot of points where uh he can be left aside I don't know he goes to downstairs and like basement or using the metro uh subways uh and you know loses the connection and he cannot download he forgets about the app etc in Telegram you receive the link you click and the same the same moment you're becoming the referral of the of the friend just just one example right mhm and now I'm starting to forget what was the initial question i was I was asking that you know you are switching also into web space because the experience also there lots of people doesn't for example for me even I have that uh I don't know maybe I used to use you know the binance or everything or the tax is on web some people are using mobile experience but I don't have that's why that's why I think for example ton blockchain and telegram they started to put the restrictions for example you cannot connect the external wallets to the app right so this is why uh for example with the web version people would be able to connect different wallets for their uh you know user experience to make it easier right uh same with like uh Netflix you can use it on your iPhone you can use it on your smart TV and I think soon you you're going to be able to watch it through through your you know digital glasses or or the watch itself right uh so we want to give users the ability to use it uh in the best way they they want to you're you're absolutely right some of the functions some of the front end stuff is easier and nicer to look at the native apps for the for Apple for example right some animations and stuff like this so there's some limitations in Telegram web app because Telegram allows you to launch mini apps as a web applications right and I think you're going to expand your user base type for example I'm I can call myself more little bit more professional trading because I need more technical details i need you so if you expand your uh presence into web so you're going to attract people like me because uh but application is more like I believe regular you know daily users just yes but by the way uh telegram has this you know full screen mode so where you can have more graphs and all this stuff it's also it's also developing and evolving yeah so okay so this is and also I think you know you you don't have the perpetu right now right not yet but this is one of the not many features we still lacking I mean we still need to release it and it's on the back end side it's already developed now we're connected to the front end side testing it and should be released we're aiming to release it like by the end of Q1 beginning of Q4 okay because perpetual futures are important part of the of the platform I agree yeah for example of course very dangerous for if you guys are doing it for the first time for example for me it is don't don't do it uh you may lose all of your money so Binance was doing probably they are still doing right they were making some quizzes when you enter still maybe you can also put some quizzes that's that's the right approach I think is right because uh I mean like newbies are just you know having this $10 save from lunches at school maybe or in the early university years and go like 100 uh you know 100x with the margin trading and I mean that's not good so we need to educate actually like education like what we're doing here today and we're doing the YouTube for we have the bloom academy where we like short videos which explains what is uh leverage trading what is decks what is sex what is what are the bridges and what is the copy trading and all this kind of stuff uh I think very very important especially especially sorry for taking so much time air time but especially we understand that a lot of users who came through telegram they're the newbies mhm expecting just the airrop so they were not there for the crypto market and our biggest strategy goal is to convert from this you know 91 million plus audience as many training users as possible now I think we're about like 0.6 0.7% conversion rate and but this is very good numbers okay i want to reach like one uh 1.5 maybe 2% overall from the registered user base how many people you think in crypto space real users they understand how to trade they have a wallet in we need to define it 100 million for example you think you know proper crypto we need to define it it's really hard to say I mean like the users with the one transaction with the activated wallet or not because only at bloom out of the 91 million we have more than 38 million wallets connected right but of course part of those wallets are not activated right uh we have I don't know like 600,000 people who trading regularly on bloom with the mean coins and inside the trading boat on Salana and and Tom right so it depends uh who we count uh as the active trading user I read the research I can send you after the you know the program um they were trying to address it with some assumption and they were saying that approximately 60 million real user in crypto space but there are billions of wallet addresses for example in avalanch launch for example they off the grid it's a game in PlayStation you know Xbox and the you know the steam web app game uh you know they I think opened more than 1 million wallets on avalanche but which I am see not used yeah it is they they don't know even you know what avalanche is probably they're just playing the game so there are lots of that kind of applications but I believe yeah 60 million a little bit maybe low but but by the way I think this is uh the time when we reach real mass adoption when users or uh you know users or players will not even know they're using the blockchain i agree they they they are going to they are going to understand maybe in the end the the their bank application is somehow is going to be the same account and they are going to connect it and Twitter etc in the real time they are going to start to understand you know what's going on you know the crypto and the token and trader is going to increase I believe but going back to your assumption like 100 million users uh overall at least 600 six million says But I assume with the new developments Trumpcoin and for example telegram this applications you know I think this might this might be this might be the truth and you know given that the size of the industry is very small yet I think this is why we still having pro you know not problems but still not paying too much attention to the good regulations right because it's too small I mean the whole crypto market is equal to like Nvidia uh Nvidia capitalization right so it's one American company right so still very small which is in some ways good because it has room to to grow i agree and you know what else I I I need to you know I want to ask is um actually uh we talk about you know the perpetual is coming and the hybrid you know DEX and CX uh you know comparison so what what do you think about um you know the AI because you have also trading bot model and for example for meme coins you know I can I think snipe right you know I can address copy trade copy trade etc so how is the adaption i'm going to ask this and how AI is going to evolve your feature set actually the there is uh there is unpopular uh thoughts of some part of people that we don't yet have uh the real intelligence under the AI so it's kind of a simplate kind of a thing which of course makes our job easier but it's like you know advanced search engine kind of a thing right which puts the information in the right way it can you know substract some words and or it can create fairy tales for my understand the context yet but it gives it is a great assistant I think right now but it doesn't understand the context yet but I mean we're moving there and uh I think and I believe we should be coming there and I think we uh we now are just starting to have the real utility of AI and crypto right because what we had previously you know there was this hype with the meme coins then there the There is and there was hype with AI agents what we called AI agents usually it was the she so-called sheet posters you can you know create a frog or a lion or I don't know me tokens had a character real life character with AI i mean not let's say AI GPT backed prompt engine they called it they called it yeah AI agents and they were just interacting with the with the audience audience in the like telegram or Twitter chats can put the comments and the AI could could answer and of course it you know gives you the great uh content marketing and the marketing opportunities because those AI agents could reply to for example Vitalic Bhutarian post etc and we know that uh gaining more users and traction and traffic on Twitter and subscribers is not only by having the cool content but also interacting with the other accounts right so in this way it was only this and then uh I think AI6Z one of the AI agents points I think they changed their name because of Andres real VC somehow you know threatened to sue them of course they they are changing their name but yeah it was the same I think they released the Eliza framework and uh and they they said that they will be able to you know actually manage funds manage crypto and do the transaction kind of a things right so we're moving towards the real thing because the AI experiment they uh when I worked at Binance we had this experiment at the at Binance but it was also like the very early stage was I think like three four like three years ago uh at that time at Binance all AI was about that you could download your picture uh and put some keywords for example uh sand sun uh I don't know surfboard or whatever and it created the picture like you know visual GPTs were doing and then out of this picture you could uh mean the NFT i mean we we all understood it was just a game just touching somewhere the technologies around this thing right now when AI6Z and the other platforms are coming and by the way we invested in one of the platforms um in one of the which sorry not virtual it's uh not not virtual it's a new one it's called envy okay uh so it's coming to the market and we chain there uh they're going to they're going to be multi-chain so they are working at the AI protocol which uh creating the chips or the products for the AI for different usage right for uh you know uh personas and characters for managing funds uh and all all of this kind of stuff so we're going to be using their technology uh very very soon uh to u let people who create meme coins on Bloom uh actually attach the AI agent into this and not only for the posting or for the characters but then to manage the funds for example I can do the airdrops to the users we can set some rules we started to see some I think you know activities i think on avalanche I saw uh al blop or albert token they said that you know AI agent decided to first allocation to sell anything but I agree right now the current problem and I think do you remember maybe you heard the revolute you of course you know the the founder I think they have a fund managed by AI and crunch base also released you know some experimental data yeah now from the experiments and the games around AI and crypto we're starting to touch the real things not you know I think it is doable because experimenting that kind of stuff not right now but as you said the agent maybe it became a hype because open AI also released their first AI agent you know uh like the the UiPath you know this robotic process automation thing you know it reads your movement and it helps for the businesses i think the main problem with AI currently but which 100% is going to be solved that you know similar to the uh uh driverless cars we have the technology we have the maps but we're too afraid we're too too afraid in some places in the world i agree to you know sit in a car where there's no driver right so we just need to change our thinking so and the price for the mistake in the AI trading if uh the bot goes insane or you know will not understand you and spend all your funds which you have on your wallets the price of the mistake is very high so that's why developers are a bit cautious and a bit uh you know uh thinking that do not want to lose your money because you know users just going to be you are pointing out you know a very good example because I remember maybe 10 years ago people were talking about you know driverless car and people said that you know we cannot jump into directly you know uh driverless instead there's going to be hybrid models but and then they decided to remove the you know the hybrid model instead right now Tesla is you know I think there was there's still like we I believe we are now in the hybrid hybrid mode because because regulation because like Teslas have uh this autopilot right so you can you can but you have to be present in the car right but I think the conversation they don't need that it is just like you know make people safer so it doesn't you know need you know the hybrid this is the thing so I think you know AGI thing you know probably is going to come but uh so yeah the both I think it's very uh engaging with the trading and the B and fund management and as you said insight generation um this four or five months ago I think the virtuals on the bay ecosystem is somehow pushed this they they and their like token was valued all tokens 5 billion yeah I mean no virtual MCAP was 5 billion but right now I think it's 1 billion or something but this volatility is normal to the crypto market yeah but the the virtual and then Solana you know I think and all other chains I started to explore this area but in the end yes there are lots of [ __ ] AI agent called agent coins but in the end there are going to be some I think use cases of course that's what we're talking about the managing the funds and actually creating automating your your actual needs and also for example for Bloom I believe because you are very focused to user on boarding and experience I think AI is going to be for main main characters right to integrate yes yes because we we we so so users will be able to create the AI agents connected to their tokens they they they do also it's going to be of course being the co-pilot which can you know kind of uh give the advice or give the you know control the feed which you have and gives the advice on the narratives and the sentiment which you have see on the social media for some of the tokens and it will be able to if you ask them to hey I want to invest in the president's meme coins or the animals meme coins collect me the thing and make the transaction or find me the coins uh which most likely will make I don't know 5% a year or 10 or 50% a year income um it it can you know prove that why they showed you this those tokens and uh you can say that you confirming the transaction or not and they will you know it can even rebalance your portfolio right yeah I mean assistant again you know it will be great feature for Bloom i mean in the end you know built me a basket as you said you know around some AI agents but doing this setup and some gaming etc and also it was the same example came to my mind for example everyone's talking about Kanye West is going to introduce his own token it will be great if you can say my AI agent when they launch it do it right now it is impossible you know to find for example for Trump I woke up and just checked the Twitter 8 hours ago you know something like you know they release same for me for me so this is the thing um Vimir thank you very much you know we talk a lot about bloom and hybrid exchanges and AI and I think we talk a lot maybe 45 minutes or so maybe we passed and I think we didn't cover a lot so there's a good chance there were lots of you know we we need to you know make the second episode maybe when you next would be my pleasure visit to IstAnul and thank you do you have anything else you know the announcement I don't know you know I think no matter what the market is because we're now recording this interview when there's some yeah huge I don't know correction or the turn turn of the market from from let me check you know the current price right from bear to uh from uh from you know bull to bear I think It's you know you always find the best and very good uh alternatives and abilities to run in crypto and crypto is so fast and the new narratives are coming so frequently and uh you you you can do a lot in crypto so my advice for those and I know that there are a lot of viewers of yourself who are still you know considering crypto but not sure uh that it's you know uh good enough uh just to learn about it and uh just to watch your videos and uh to read a lot about this because there are so many different different concepts different products different investment opportunities I mean even way much better than in banks and also secure right So if you want to save your USDs um dollars in crypto and earn percentages I know 10% 7% you can do it in crypto so I mean it's it's first of all it's a technology and all these cryptocurrencies investment products and all these opportunities for uh you know creators developers u you you have a good point because right now for example for a person in Turkey because of you know fluctuation economy inflation etc let's say you know you have $10,000 you cannot get 5% exactly uh you know interest rate from any bank in Turkey right now but you can go and deposit your money safely for me for example for ETA uh or you know co USDC you know you get some you know uh return like a you know institution in Turkey because they get it they can they have a coverage against inflation you know US dollar inflation so uh but people don't didn't know it till you know I believe with the crypto and engagement they started to understand you know the economy how the basic works and right now I am checking the price is 80,000 still but Ethereum has a huge hits i mean $2,100 it is very very low when you everyone was expecting it depends on what you compare with yeah it is the expected correction I believe but yeah we are going to see so this is not the first time I mean I was I was buying of course it's gone but I was like not that long ago I was buying Bitcoin for $600 right and uh Ethereum was like4 $40 right $30 so it it it depends because the world moves so fast we're expecting the fast returns and you know it's always going to grow these guys it never happens but the crypto overall yeah this is this opportunity I believe you know yeah these these moments okay man thank you very much my pleasure and my honor to be here thanks a lot for inviting see you next time then thank you thank you

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